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RE: Updating Cities en masse

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JW
Jacob Wimberley, modified 4 Years ago.

Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 20 Join Date: 9/16/14 Recent Posts

We have identified errors in our CWA's Cities List that were fixed locally almost 20 years ago.  There are also a number of significant cities that are not even present in the list.  Is there a way we can replace our current cities list with one we are using operationally in AWIPS?  E.g. WarnGenLoc or the legacy LSR editor LSRcities.txt?

 

Replacing the list with a "known good" one would be much more efficient than trying to add/edit individual cities with the Cities Editor.

JM
Joseph Moore, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 32 Join Date: 11/1/13 Recent Posts
We seem to have at least 4-5 "city" location datasets across NWS:
  1. *WarnGenLoc file (maintained locally with updates sent to HQ, so should be up-to-date nationally)
  2. LSRcities.txt (legacy) 
  3. **City locations in AWIPS (CitiesInfo.txt and/or LocalCitiesInfo.txt ?)
  4. IRIS Cities
  5. Storm Data cities (This may be updated/overwritten when the new Storm Data comes out which I believe will happen within the next 1-2 years per a Dec 2019 email)
  6. NOHRSC city shapefile
*Technically the format of WarnGenLoc is concerned with city areas, not points, which is another complicating factor since cities really are shapes, not points, which is a whole 'nother complicating factor.

**There used to be a cities baseline shapefile, but this was removed from the shapefile database a few years ago. (At least the online, publicly accessible shapefile website.)

This topic has been brought up for many years - as far back as 2015 on the IRIS email list - but I'm not aware of any ongoing effort to try and unify these datasets. Hopefully the IRIS team can share if there's any ongoing efforts.

The discrepancies between the datasets can be numerous - some have <100 cities for us, some have cities that never existed in the first place, some have neighborhoods, some have misspellings, some have locations that are miles away from the real place... it's a dizzying amount of data quality issues to keep track of, and it's important that we have at least some unified dataset because it's easy to accidentally contradict ourselves. As an example, a tornado location in IRIS and StormData might be different (5 W Anytown vs. 2 NE Anytown) even if the lat/lon are identical, which makes us look bad in my opinion. This is a complex topic, but I feel like we have the GIS expertise to at least agree on one dataset. And I don't think this is a super critical issue (most city locations are fine and close enough), but it seems like it could be something that a team could tackle. 

-Joe


On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 9:43 AM Jacob Wimberley <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

We have identified errors in our CWA's Cities List that were fixed locally almost 20 years ago.  There are also a number of significant cities that are not even present in the list.  Is there a way we can replace our current cities list with one we are using operationally in AWIPS?  E.g. WarnGenLoc or the legacy LSR editor LSRcities.txt?

 

Replacing the list with a "known good" one would be much more efficient than trying to add/edit individual cities with the Cities Editor.


--
Jacob Wimberley IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9679722 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653
JW
Jacob Wimberley, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 20 Join Date: 9/16/14 Recent Posts

Thanks Joe.  I know WarnGenLoc is not necessarily the best option, but it does have lots of locally familiar place names in it that are likely to be referenced by people phoning in reports.  It'd be nice if IRIS supported uploading a shapefile of cities, even if it didn't match one of the existing NWS conventions.

 

For now, I am going to advise our staff to use the Address Search feature in their first attempt to enter a report in IRIS.

 

Jake

JM
Joseph Moore, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 32 Join Date: 11/1/13 Recent Posts
Also, just to be clear: you can edit the cities manually in IRIS - here's the instructions: https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/-/cities-editor?selectedFolder=810366

There's just no way that I know about to wholesale replace your cities dataset, but the IRIS team might be able to help if you want to just wholesale replace all your cities with a different dataset - I'm sure someone from the team will respond shortly.

-Joe

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 10:47 AM Jacob Wimberley <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Thanks Joe.  I know WarnGenLoc is not necessarily the best option, but it does have lots of locally familiar place names in it that are likely to be referenced by people phoning in reports.  It'd be nice if IRIS supported uploading a shapefile of cities, even if it didn't match one of the existing NWS conventions.

 

For now, I am going to advise our staff to use the Address Search feature in their first attempt to enter a report in IRIS.

 

Jake


--
Jacob Wimberley IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9683980 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653
JW
Jacob Wimberley, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 20 Join Date: 9/16/14 Recent Posts

Thanks Joe.  I know that's there, and it's easy enough to do for a spot error, but it would be nice to be able to apply all the changes we need to make at once.

KS
Kevin M. Smith, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 6/13/17 Recent Posts

I'm not intimately familiar with each of the 5-6 city location data-sets listed by Joseph Moore, but I would argue that even if a particular data-set isn't perfect (perhaps a couple cities are technically a mile off from where we think they should be), having everything at least using the same data-set would be a step in the right direction as far as improving consistency and avoiding contradictions between LSRs and StormData. 

 

We have definitely noticed some oddities in our IRIS cities dataset here at PIH as well. Will continue watching this thread!

 

Kevin Smith

NWS Pocatello

MD
Matt Davis, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 195 Join Date: 6/14/11 Recent Posts
Hi Jacob. If there is a list of the changes needed, please send them to me and I will update them for you.
The IRIS cities were taken from a snapshot of the AWIPS cities about 10 years ago. Also, I fully support a
national cities standard for all NWS applications! We've needed it for a long time. Warngenloc will not work for this due to custom modifications made.

Thanks,
Matt

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:36 AM Kevin M. Smith <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

I'm not intimately familiar with each of the 5-6 city location data-sets listed by Joseph Moore, but I would argue that even if a particular data-set isn't perfect (perhaps a couple cities are technically a mile off from where we think they should be), having everything at least using the same data-set would be a step in the right direction as far as improving consistency and avoiding contradictions between LSRs and StormData. 

 

We have definitely noticed some oddities in our IRIS cities dataset here at PIH as well. Will continue watching this thread!

 

Kevin Smith

NWS Pocatello


--
Kevin M. Smith IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9695568 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Project Manager for IRIS, iNWS, CAP Handler
and NWSChat Long Term Update
Meteorological Development Lab
Office of Science and Technology Integration
NOAA DSRC 3D131, Boulder, Colorado
(608) 406-0537



JW
Jacob Wimberley, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 20 Join Date: 9/16/14 Recent Posts

Thanks Kevin and Matt for your replies.  Glad to know we're not the only ones who have noticed these things.


Matt, thank you for the offer.  I will get an updated list from our WarnGen focal point and send it to you.

 

Jake

BM
Brian Miretzky, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 2 Join Date: 1/8/13 Recent Posts
I believe we have brought this up before with the National Geospatial Integrated Work Team (GIWT) to review the multiple cities files out there. I will take the action to bring it up again.

Thanks,
Brian Miretzky
NWS GIWT Co-Lead

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 12:34 PM Jacob Wimberley <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Thanks Kevin and Matt for your replies.  Glad to know we're not the only ones who have noticed these things.


Matt, thank you for the offer.  I will get an updated list from our WarnGen focal point and send it to you.

 

Jake


--
Jacob Wimberley IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9705869 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
MD
Matt Davis, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 195 Join Date: 6/14/11 Recent Posts
Thanks Brian!!

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Miretzky <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I believe we have brought this up before with the National Geospatial Integrated Work Team (GIWT) to review the multiple cities files out there. I will take the action to bring it up again.

Thanks,
Brian Miretzky
NWS GIWT Co-Lead

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 12:34 PM Jacob Wimberley <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Thanks Kevin and Matt for your replies.  Glad to know we're not the only ones who have noticed these things.


Matt, thank you for the offer.  I will get an updated list from our WarnGen focal point and send it to you.

 

Jake


--
Jacob Wimberley IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9705869 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Brian Miretzky IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9717035 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Project Manager for IRIS, iNWS, CAP Handler
and NWSChat Long Term Update
Meteorological Development Lab
Office of Science and Technology Integration
NOAA DSRC 3D131, Boulder, Colorado
(608) 406-0537



TB
Timothy Barker, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 1 Join Date: 9/20/12 Recent Posts
I think it is important to keep in mind that the naming and usage of the different files might make a difference.

We have large areas without many "cities" or "populated places" - yet we have added numerous "landmarks" in those areas within the Warngenloc file - because it is helpful for a warning to say that the storm is "5 miles southwest of Notch Butte" or "3 miles south of Helende Campground" - rather than a distance from a very distant city, such as "50 miles northwest of Lowman".

I'd love to move toward a single "locations" file for use in both LSRs and warnings (and other usage) - but it should be able to handle that sometimes a useful location or landmark is not necessarily a populated place or city.

Tim
--

Timothy Barker
Science and Operations Officer
NWS Boise, ID
208-334-9861 x 3


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:28 AM Matt Davis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks Brian!!

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Miretzky <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I believe we have brought this up before with the National Geospatial Integrated Work Team (GIWT) to review the multiple cities files out there. I will take the action to bring it up again.

Thanks,
Brian Miretzky
NWS GIWT Co-Lead

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 12:34 PM Jacob Wimberley <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Thanks Kevin and Matt for your replies.  Glad to know we're not the only ones who have noticed these things.


Matt, thank you for the offer.  I will get an updated list from our WarnGen focal point and send it to you.

 

Jake


--
Jacob Wimberley IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9705869 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Brian Miretzky IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9717035 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Project Manager for IRIS, iNWS, CAP Handler
and NWSChat Long Term Update
Meteorological Development Lab
Office of Science and Technology Integration
NOAA DSRC 3D131, Boulder, Colorado
(608) 406-0537




--
Matt Davis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9717763 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
BM
Brian Miretzky, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: Updating Cities en masse

Youngling Posts: 2 Join Date: 1/8/13 Recent Posts
Yes Tim definitely sensitive to the different uses. It may need to be more than one dataset. We will see.

Thanks,

Brian

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 12:46 PM Timothy Barker <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I think it is important to keep in mind that the naming and usage of the different files might make a difference.

We have large areas without many "cities" or "populated places" - yet we have added numerous "landmarks" in those areas within the Warngenloc file - because it is helpful for a warning to say that the storm is "5 miles southwest of Notch Butte" or "3 miles south of Helende Campground" - rather than a distance from a very distant city, such as "50 miles northwest of Lowman".

I'd love to move toward a single "locations" file for use in both LSRs and warnings (and other usage) - but it should be able to handle that sometimes a useful location or landmark is not necessarily a populated place or city.

Tim
--

Timothy Barker
Science and Operations Officer
NWS Boise, ID
208-334-9861 x 3


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:28 AM Matt Davis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks Brian!!

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:33 AM Brian Miretzky <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I believe we have brought this up before with the National Geospatial Integrated Work Team (GIWT) to review the multiple cities files out there. I will take the action to bring it up again.

Thanks,
Brian Miretzky
NWS GIWT Co-Lead

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 12:34 PM Jacob Wimberley <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Thanks Kevin and Matt for your replies.  Glad to know we're not the only ones who have noticed these things.


Matt, thank you for the offer.  I will get an updated list from our WarnGen focal point and send it to you.

 

Jake


--
Jacob Wimberley IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9705869 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Brian Miretzky IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9717035 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Project Manager for IRIS, iNWS, CAP Handler
and NWSChat Long Term Update
Meteorological Development Lab
Office of Science and Technology Integration
NOAA DSRC 3D131, Boulder, Colorado
(608) 406-0537




--
Matt Davis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9717763 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Timothy Barker IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/9718345 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov