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RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

ML
Michael Lewis, modified 2 Years ago.

mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 6 Join Date: 11/12/13 Recent Posts

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana

mping spotter reports lsr wx reports
RH
Ryan Husted, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 10/7/16 Recent Posts
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896

NF
Nicholas Fenner, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 8 Join Date: 11/1/12 Recent Posts
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS
MS
Mike Sutton, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 58 Join Date: 6/21/13 Recent Posts
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54
JM
Joseph Moore, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 31 Join Date: 11/1/13 Recent Posts
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653
TE
Tony Edwards, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 17 Join Date: 12/16/13 Recent Posts
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
LN
Lauren Nash, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/24/13 Recent Posts
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans


JC
Joanne Culin, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 4 Join Date: 3/10/17 Recent Posts
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



--
Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23737239VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189

NF
Nicholas Fenner, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 8 Join Date: 11/1/12 Recent Posts
According to the EF Scale, 1 inch branches break between 48-72 mph, roughly the same range as "threshold of visible damage" to single homes (53-80 mph).  Unless we convert from PUB to LSR, the reports just sit quietly in the database.  It seems to me that eliminating them just eliminates a source of data you can follow-up on.  We've all gotten suspicious reports from the public that later turned out to be more impactful events than we credited them for.  AMA had a great example from years ago where a weak shower produced a dry microburst that busted windows, downed fences, and uprooted a park bench.  Here at JAN we got a report of a collapsed car wash wall that turned into a swath of damaging wind when surveyed.  Or another time a downed tree that ended up being a 90 mph microburst in a small town.  I'd at least be curious if someone on mPing reported wind damage.  Like snow or sleet reports, they're seeing something about the weather that has motivated them to open an app and report it.

-Nick

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:04 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



--
Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23737239VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


--
Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23740321VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS
JC
Joanne Culin, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 4 Join Date: 3/10/17 Recent Posts
This is why I’d prefer the developers improve the app capability rather than us deleting the reports or negating them. I’d like for them to be more useable. 

Joanne

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
According to the EF Scale, 1 inch branches break between 48-72 mph, roughly the same range as "threshold of visible damage" to single homes (53-80 mph).  Unless we convert from PUB to LSR, the reports just sit quietly in the database.  It seems to me that eliminating them just eliminates a source of data you can follow-up on.  We've all gotten suspicious reports from the public that later turned out to be more impactful events than we credited them for.  AMA had a great example from years ago where a weak shower produced a dry microburst that busted windows, downed fences, and uprooted a park bench.  Here at JAN we got a report of a collapsed car wash wall that turned into a swath of damaging wind when surveyed.  Or another time a downed tree that ended up being a 90 mph microburst in a small town.  I'd at least be curious if someone on mPing reported wind damage.  Like snow or sleet reports, they're seeing something about the weather that has motivated them to open an app and report it.

-Nick

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:04 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



--
Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23737239VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


--
Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23740321VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23747939VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189

LN
Lauren Nash, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/24/13 Recent Posts
As an example…. Today we received a freezing rain report!




On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:17 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is why I’d prefer the developers improve the app capability rather than us deleting the reports or negating them. I’d like for them to be more useable. 

Joanne


On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
According to the EF Scale, 1 inch branches break between 48-72 mph, roughly the same range as "threshold of visible damage" to single homes (53-80 mph).  Unless we convert from PUB to LSR, the reports just sit quietly in the database.  It seems to me that eliminating them just eliminates a source of data you can follow-up on.  We've all gotten suspicious reports from the public that later turned out to be more impactful events than we credited them for.  AMA had a great example from years ago where a weak shower produced a dry microburst that busted windows, downed fences, and uprooted a park bench.  Here at JAN we got a report of a collapsed car wash wall that turned into a swath of damaging wind when surveyed.  Or another time a downed tree that ended up being a 90 mph microburst in a small town.  I'd at least be curious if someone on mPing reported wind damage.  Like snow or sleet reports, they're seeing something about the weather that has motivated them to open an app and report it.

-Nick

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:04 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



--
Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23737239VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


--
Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23740321VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23747939VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


--
Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23748241VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans


RH
Ryan Husted, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 3 Join Date: 10/7/16 Recent Posts
Just to follow-up. My personal recommendation is that we can still receive the reports, but the canned "Tree limbs down. Roofs blown off" wording doesn't fit the damage that is often trying to be reported. Therefore, allow the public comments to come through instead of being hidden and having a canned impact statement that isn't necessarily representative, and as a result, won't be used in the end.

Ryan

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:46 PM Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
As an example…. Today we received a freezing rain report!




On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:17 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is why I’d prefer the developers improve the app capability rather than us deleting the reports or negating them. I’d like for them to be more useable. 

Joanne


On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
According to the EF Scale, 1 inch branches break between 48-72 mph, roughly the same range as "threshold of visible damage" to single homes (53-80 mph).  Unless we convert from PUB to LSR, the reports just sit quietly in the database.  It seems to me that eliminating them just eliminates a source of data you can follow-up on.  We've all gotten suspicious reports from the public that later turned out to be more impactful events than we credited them for.  AMA had a great example from years ago where a weak shower produced a dry microburst that busted windows, downed fences, and uprooted a park bench.  Here at JAN we got a report of a collapsed car wash wall that turned into a swath of damaging wind when surveyed.  Or another time a downed tree that ended up being a 90 mph microburst in a small town.  I'd at least be curious if someone on mPing reported wind damage.  Like snow or sleet reports, they're seeing something about the weather that has motivated them to open an app and report it.

-Nick

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:04 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

--
Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

--
Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



--
Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23737239VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


--
Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23740321VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23747939VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


--
Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23748241VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--


Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



--
Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23765118VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896

DR
Dan Reilly, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 1 Join Date: 12/18/13 Recent Posts
I agree with Ryan on this.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 12:15 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Just to follow-up. My personal recommendation is that we can still receive the reports, but the canned "Tree limbs down. Roofs blown off" wording doesn't fit the damage that is often trying to be reported. Therefore, allow the public comments to come through instead of being hidden and having a canned impact statement that isn't necessarily representative, and as a result, won't be used in the end.

Ryan

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:46 PM Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
As an example…. Today we received a freezing rain report!




On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:17 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is why I’d prefer the developers improve the app capability rather than us deleting the reports or negating them. I’d like for them to be more useable. 

Joanne


On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
According to the EF Scale, 1 inch branches break between 48-72 mph, roughly the same range as "threshold of visible damage" to single homes (53-80 mph).  Unless we convert from PUB to LSR, the reports just sit quietly in the database.  It seems to me that eliminating them just eliminates a source of data you can follow-up on.  We've all gotten suspicious reports from the public that later turned out to be more impactful events than we credited them for.  AMA had a great example from years ago where a weak shower produced a dry microburst that busted windows, downed fences, and uprooted a park bench.  Here at JAN we got a report of a collapsed car wash wall that turned into a swath of damaging wind when surveyed.  Or another time a downed tree that ended up being a 90 mph microburst in a small town.  I'd at least be curious if someone on mPing reported wind damage.  Like snow or sleet reports, they're seeing something about the weather that has motivated them to open an app and report it.

-Nick

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:04 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


--
Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


--
Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

--
Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
Information Technology Officer
Weather Forecast Office
4899 Tim Dougherty Drive SE
Grand Rapids, MI  49512-4034
Google Voice:  (616) 379-9216
Office:  (616) 949-0643 x486
AWIPS2 - Build 20.2.3-54

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Joseph J. Moore
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Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

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Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
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Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


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Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23740321VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
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Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
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Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23748241VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
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Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
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Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
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Dan Reilly
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Kevin M. Smith, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 6/13/17 Recent Posts
I'll echo that while the hail reports are nice and specific (exact time, exact location, and size), and thus are immediately useful for LSRs, the wind damage reports are absolutely useless for LSRs (and if something is useless for LSRs, why ingest it into our LSR software?). I've seen some WFOs who do send them out, and I've always wondered how the conversation would go if a media partner called the WFO asking where the power poles were broken so they can send a reporter out, and we would have to explain things...in my opinion that scenario undermines the legitimacy, accurate detail, and trust associated with our LSRs currently.

I suspect we also don't have much control over modifying the mPING app, since the whole purpose of the app wasn't to cater to the NWS specifically or provide us information in the format WE prefer it in. Doesn't mean we can't have the conversation with NSSL, but it's still a consideration.

All of that said, more than one person has expressed potential value in not purging these reports completely, so in the interests of half-helping everyone and harming the fewest, I reluctantly think keeping the reports and just differentiating them from other incoming public reports might be the way to go. It's been commented that the mPING wind damage reports could act as a situational awareness flag for potential damage. I work in a rural CWA where we get VERY FEW mPING reports, but I could certainly envision that if I saw 2 or 3 wind damage mPINGs come in for a specific area, while I would still NOT send them out as LSRs, it might prompt me to devote some time to data-mining from social media for that specific area to see if something might have happened.

This entire discussion is a good one to be having, regardless of where it leads.

-Kevin

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Kevin M. Smith
Meteorologist
Media Program Manager
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Phone: 208-233-0834
Fax: 208-233-2417
Email: Kevin.M.Smith@noaa.gov


On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 8:29 AM Dan Reilly <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I agree with Ryan on this.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 12:15 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Just to follow-up. My personal recommendation is that we can still receive the reports, but the canned "Tree limbs down. Roofs blown off" wording doesn't fit the damage that is often trying to be reported. Therefore, allow the public comments to come through instead of being hidden and having a canned impact statement that isn't necessarily representative, and as a result, won't be used in the end.

Ryan

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 12:46 PM Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
As an example…. Today we received a freezing rain report!




On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 6:17 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is why I’d prefer the developers improve the app capability rather than us deleting the reports or negating them. I’d like for them to be more useable. 

Joanne


On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
According to the EF Scale, 1 inch branches break between 48-72 mph, roughly the same range as "threshold of visible damage" to single homes (53-80 mph).  Unless we convert from PUB to LSR, the reports just sit quietly in the database.  It seems to me that eliminating them just eliminates a source of data you can follow-up on.  We've all gotten suspicious reports from the public that later turned out to be more impactful events than we credited them for.  AMA had a great example from years ago where a weak shower produced a dry microburst that busted windows, downed fences, and uprooted a park bench.  Here at JAN we got a report of a collapsed car wash wall that turned into a swath of damaging wind when surveyed.  Or another time a downed tree that ended up being a 90 mph microburst in a small town.  I'd at least be curious if someone on mPing reported wind damage.  Like snow or sleet reports, they're seeing something about the weather that has motivated them to open an app and report it.

-Nick

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 12:04 PM Joanne Culin <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I’m with everyone else. I use the hail reports and winter reports, but the rest don’t provide much use. I’d prefer we improve the mping program to be able to comment or clarify the reports better. I hate deleting them every time but usually end up doing that since they aren’t useful. 

Joanne 

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, Lauren Nash <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Agree. I have to spend time deleting them all. We frequently get reports when there are no storms or rain even around the area! Without the ability to "free hand" the reports, they are unusable for us. Like above we'll get "One inch limb broken, shingles torn off" which are completely different wind speeds. I'm in favor of removing the reports from IRIS as well. 

Lauren 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:42 AM Tony Edwards <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Since it seems to be unanimous that these wind and flood categories in mPing are pretty much worthless, has anyone ever contacted the NSSL folks and asked them to better word those categories?  

Tony - RLX


On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:38 AM Joseph Moore <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I would love it if IRIS just did not ingest the wind damage and flooding reports at all. These reports are almost never helpful to us because we can't trust them (due to their anonymous nature) and the preset categories have a range from minor damage to serious destruction... "1-inch tree limbs broken" - that could be a 30 mph gust "Shingles blown off" - now you're talking 70+ mph. Similarly with flooding, we need the DETAILS from flooding reports, and mPING just isn't capable of giving us those details needed for a quality LSR. 

Hail reports? Sure! Those are just fine, and we encourage spotters to use mPING for hail reports. But wind damage and flooding? Please just remove them, or at the very least maybe change the Source to "Unknown" as Michael suggests.

-Joe



On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 7:35 AM Mike Sutton <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
This is an outstanding Feature Request in IRIS:  https://vlab.noaa.gov/redmine/issues/78664  There is currently no estimate on when it would be implemented, however.

Thanks,
Mike Sutton
IRIS Support/ITO GRR

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 5:48 PM Nicholas Fenner <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
If I might offer a word of slight defense for the mPing reports, I believe the intention is for those reports to correlate to wind damage categories on the EF scale.  So 60 mph, 75-85 mph, and 95-105 type ranges.   I wouldn't say they aren't credible reports, but the level of detail is not there.  The reports can still be a good indication that severe winds occurred.  The issue is they can't really be used in IRIS verbatim, since it's a generalized wording meant for users of the app.  I think it would be helpful to give them a unique status label in IRIS, and then you can dig further into the surrounding areas for supporting reports if needed.

-Nicholas

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 1:42 PM Ryan Husted <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for bringing this up! I thought I had noticed this being an issue with an earlier event, and then we also received a couple mping reports from the same location in multiple events, so that led us to question the credibility of those reports.

I do agree, the narratives/public comments will help us out when we receive those reports.

Ryan

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 12:33 PM Michael Lewis <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

My sincerest appreciation to the developers of IRIS and the integration of the mPing data into the Wx Reports/LSRs functionality. 

 

One of the challenges we have been faced with is quickly assessing the source of the PUB reports during very active weather events. 

Would it be possible to have the mPing reports assigned the "Unknown" as the Source?  This would at least allow us a way to filter the PUB reports from mPing.  This is especially critical for the wind related mPing reports as these are often so generalized that the data is of little value. 

For instance, we received over 50 'Tstm Wnd Dmg' mPing reports during our most recent event with the Remarks ranging from:

"Report from mPING: 1-inch tree limbs broken; Shingles blown off". 

"Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken"

"Report from mPING: Trees uprooted or snapped; Roof blown off"

When we started comparing to nearby reports (with images) the data from mPing was not representative (especially the structural damage portions of the report.) 

Additionally, there were several other reports that were submitted via the online reporting form concurrent to the mPing reports which included excellent narratives; however, these were lost in the process because there was no way to discern these from the mPing reports.  For instance the following public comments were provided from the online form: 

Public comments.
Will not appear in products.
Grain leg down and irrigation blown over.
IP Address: 23.220.96.61

An mPing report from nearly the same location (and received at the same time) had the following comment: 

Report from mPING: 3-inch tree limbs broken; Power poles broken

It would be ideal if there was a way to visually discern mPing reports from other PUB reports. 

Again, just some rambling thoughts of a long in the tooth, old dog WCM. 

Michael Lewis
WCM WFO Northern Indiana


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Michael Lewis IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23710093VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


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Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23717173VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

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Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23726599VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Mike Sutton - KB5ZRC
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Mike Sutton IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23735246VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Joseph J. Moore
Warning Coordination Meteorologist / Acting Meteorologist-in-Charge
NOAA/National Weather Service Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6483 x726 | Cell: 267-481-0341 | Operations: 218-729-0653

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Joseph Moore IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736469VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

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Tony Edwards IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23736661VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
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Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23737239VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


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Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23740321VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Nicholas Fenner
National Weather Service
WFO Jackson, MS

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Nicholas Fenner IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23747939VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Joanne Culin
Lead Meteorologist
NWS Jackson, MS
601-936-2189


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Joanne Culin IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23748241VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
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Lauren Nash (she/her/hers)
Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)
National Weather Service New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Cell: (985) 788-5855
24/7 Operations Phone Number:
504-522-7330 or 985-649-0429 Ext. 4

Find us on Facebook!
Find us on Twitter! @NWSNewOrleans



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Lauren Nash IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23765118VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Ryan Husted
Warning Coordination Meteorologist, NWS WFO Goodland, KS
Office: 785-899-7119
Cell: 817-526-4896


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Ryan Husted IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23782998VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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Dan Reilly
Warning Coordination Meteorologist
National Weather Service Houston/Galveston
281-534-2157 ext. 223

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Dan Reilly IRIS Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/23838004VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
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Kevin M. Smith, modified 3 Days ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 6/13/17 Recent Posts

All - Stumbled back across this old conversation this morning. Just in case anyone missed it...the "Storm Damage" categories in mPING have recently been updated to be much more specific and potentially more useful for LSRs! Here are the new categories:

 

  • 1) Small branches <1" broken/down
  • 2) 1" tree limbs broken
  • 3) Shingles blown off
  • 4) 3" limbs broken
  • 5) Power lines torn off poles
  • 6) Trees uprooted
  • 7) Power poles down/broken
  • 8) Substantial roof damage
  • 9) Substantial structural damage to homes and buildings

 

- Kevin

 

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Kevin M. Smith
Meteorologist  |  Severe Weather Program Manager
National Weather Service - Pocatello, Idaho
Phone: 208-233-0834
Email: kevin.m.smith@noaa.gov

MD
Matt Davis, modified 3 Days ago.

RE: mPing Reports in IRIS

Youngling Posts: 195 Join Date: 6/14/11 Recent Posts
Thanks Kevin!

On Tue, Jun 3, 2025 at 3:57 AM Kevin M. Smith <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

All - Stumbled back across this old conversation this morning. Just in case anyone missed it...the "Storm Damage" categories in mPING have recently been updated to be much more specific and potentially more useful for LSRs! Here are the new categories:

 

  • 1) Small branches <1" broken/down
  • 2) 1" tree limbs broken
  • 3) Shingles blown off
  • 4) 3" limbs broken
  • 5) Power lines torn off poles
  • 6) Trees uprooted
  • 7) Power poles down/broken
  • 8) Substantial roof damage
  • 9) Substantial structural damage to homes and buildings

 

- Kevin

 

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Kevin M. Smith
Meteorologist  |  Severe Weather Program Manager
National Weather Service - Pocatello, Idaho
Phone: 208-233-0834
Email: kevin.m.smith@noaa.gov


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Kevin M. Smith IRIS Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/iris/iris-forum/-/message_boards/view_message/45213524VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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