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Mesonet Data usage question

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JL
John Lague, modified 3 Months ago.

Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 6 Join Date: 9/28/14 Recent Posts
I am wondering if you are aware of a mesonet becoming available.  The US Corps of Engineers is developing a large network to support the upper end of the Missouri River.  This will eventually contain 500 sites; currently 97 are developed and transmitting.   The sites are to be managed via state mesonets (Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota).

The data is currently available at "Synoptic".  
(being NWS, you are allowed a login to pull the data)

The NWS Missouri Basin River Forecast center, we are currently pulling and using this data.  

The network has temperature, precipitation (all the typical weather items) , soil moisture and soil temperature.

The data is freely available for NOAA use, but not to be distributed in its raw form.

Feel free to contact me for more info.

John LaGue
Missouri Basin River Forecast Center

Attachments:

MM
Matthew Morris, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi John,

Thanks for sharing this helpful information with us.  Provided the data for any new stations are made available through MADIS, we should be able to use them in RTMA/URMA.

In fact, I see that we are already receiving observations from the 5 mesonet providers: Montana (MT-MESO), Nebraska (NE-MESO) North Dakota (NDAWN), South Dakota (SDSMeso), and Wyoming (MesoWest/WACNET).  Note: the observations from NE-MESO, NDAWN, and SDSMeso are temporarily not being used due to an operational issue processing incoming data that fall into a specific tank.  Work is underway to address this issue, in order to resume the use of these observations.

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 5:03 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
I am wondering if you are aware of a mesonet becoming available.  The US Corps of Engineers is developing a large network to support the upper end of the Missouri River.  This will eventually contain 500 sites; currently 97 are developed and transmitting.   The sites are to be managed via state mesonets (Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota).

The data is currently available at "Synoptic".  
(being NWS, you are allowed a login to pull the data)

The NWS Missouri Basin River Forecast center, we are currently pulling and using this data.  

The network has temperature, precipitation (all the typical weather items) , soil moisture and soil temperature.

The data is freely available for NOAA use, but not to be distributed in its raw form.

Feel free to contact me for more info.

John LaGue
Missouri Basin River Forecast Center

--
John Lague RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/34875878VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758
JL
John Lague, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 6 Join Date: 9/28/14 Recent Posts

Unfornatually, the data will not be available on MADIS... at least not for likely years.  So for example there are 20 new stations managed by the South Dakota network, but the are not on MADIS.

The entire network will eventually be 500 stations, with high quality data and fine (roughly 25 square mile) resolution.

The MBRFC may be able to provide this, depening on the method and format.  Feel free to contact me for any additional discussion.

MM
Matthew Morris, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi John,

Thanks for this additional information.  Do you know why the new stations will not be available on MADIS for the immediate future?  That would be the easiest way to get these new observations used in URMA, since we are already receiving observations from the 5 regional mesonets.  If the observations can't be made available through MADIS, then we may be able to explore alternatives to obtaining them, although this might not be a trivial task.

Thanks,
Matt

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 11:29 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Unfornatually, the data will not be available on MADIS... at least not for likely years.  So for example there are 20 new stations managed by the South Dakota network, but the are not on MADIS.

The entire network will eventually be 500 stations, with high quality data and fine (roughly 25 square mile) resolution.

The MBRFC may be able to provide this, depening on the method and format.  Feel free to contact me for any additional discussion.


--
John Lague RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/34958259VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758
JL
John Lague, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 6 Join Date: 9/28/14 Recent Posts

The reason is that MADIS does not have the infrastructure to accomadate the full data suite, especially the soil moisture  and soil temperature data.  And MADIS does not think they will have that capability for some time.  They likely don't have the resources to develop and implement in a timely enough manor.  Synoptic was able to do so.

Again, since we are collecting the data we may be able to transmit to you directly.  There has also been some discussion about putting it on the LDM.  The State Mesonets just want to make sure the raw data is not shared outside the NWS.

MM
Matthew Morris, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi John,

Transmitting the data through the LDM could be a viable approach, but we would need to first check with NCO Dataflow to ensure they would be able to pull the data off the LDM.  Please let us know if we should pursue this option.

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 3:06 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

The reason is that MADIS does not have the infrastructure to accomadate the full data suite, especially the soil moisture  and soil temperature data.  And MADIS does not think they will have that capability for some time.  They likely don't have the resources to develop and implement in a timely enough manor.  Synoptic was able to do so.

Again, since we are collecting the data we may be able to transmit to you directly.  There has also been some discussion about putting it on the LDM.  The State Mesonets just want to make sure the raw data is not shared outside the NWS.


--
John Lague RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/35004583VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758
EA
Eric Allen, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: Mesonet Data usage question

Youngling Posts: 1 Join Date: 10/29/20 Recent Posts
Hi Matt (and all),

Has RTMA/URMA not been using data from Synoptic? Are they only using what is in MADIS?

I've spoken with Curtis Marshall (cc'd) about this topic. The goal is to transition everyone to Synoptic (they provide a 24x7 operational platform). MADIS is slower and no new data providers are being added because there is an indefinite freeze on further development. I highly recommend that you reach out to Curtis to answer questions on MADIS/Synoptic and the NMP.

I want to caution against creating alternative and duplicate dataflows when we should just be using the Synoptic Data. There may be a need for education on MADIS/Synoptic data at EMC/MDL and similar users of the data. Anyone still using MADIS is a red flag to me.

Eric


On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 3:44 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi John,

Transmitting the data through the LDM could be a viable approach, but we would need to first check with NCO Dataflow to ensure they would be able to pull the data off the LDM.  Please let us know if we should pursue this option.

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 3:06 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

The reason is that MADIS does not have the infrastructure to accomadate the full data suite, especially the soil moisture  and soil temperature data.  And MADIS does not think they will have that capability for some time.  They likely don't have the resources to develop and implement in a timely enough manor.  Synoptic was able to do so.

Again, since we are collecting the data we may be able to transmit to you directly.  There has also been some discussion about putting it on the LDM.  The State Mesonets just want to make sure the raw data is not shared outside the NWS.


--
John Lague RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/35004583VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/35005060VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

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