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SLC METAR Location Offset

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DC
David Church, modified 11 Months ago.

SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 1/8/14 Recent Posts

We discovered after updating some airport maps in AWIPS that it seems the SLC ASOS is misplaced in the URMA/RTMA, and might still be assigned to its old location that changed a number of years ago now. I found this Google Sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE which seems to have the correct lat/lon listed in the corrected green table, but the Google Earth obs KMZ (https://ftp.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/mmb/rtma2/for_eval/ob_files/20230603/urma2p5ob_t12z_temp_nr.kml) seems to have the location in the old spot (image attached). In addition, the NBM bias corrected temperature for the ASOS seems to be displaced even farther north (see attached). Do you know if the NBM references a different dataset for ASOS locations than the URMA/RTMA? 

Attachments:

Attachment

Attachment

SL
Steven Levine, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 174 Join Date: 11/13/14 Recent Posts
Hi David,

When replacing URMA values with obs in NBM (which happens at many METAR sites including KSLC), the blend does use a different station table than the one used for URMA.

The current NBM location for KSLC is: 40.7667 N, 111.9667 W.

The blend is going through a code freeze now, which includes the ob location table.  So if there is a desire to change that location, now would be a good time.

Steve L

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 12:12 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

We discovered after updating some airport maps in AWIPS that it seems the SLC ASOS is misplaced in the URMA/RTMA, and might still be assigned to its old location that changed a number of years ago now. I found this Google Sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE which seems to have the correct lat/lon listed in the corrected green table, but the Google Earth obs KMZ (https://ftp.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/mmb/rtma2/for_eval/ob_files/20230603/urma2p5ob_t12z_temp_nr.kml) seems to have the location in the old spot (image attached). In addition, the NBM bias corrected temperature for the ASOS seems to be displaced even farther north (see attached). Do you know if the NBM references a different dataset for ASOS locations than the URMA/RTMA? 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/discussions-forums-/-/message_boards/view_message/30008860VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
DC
David Church, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 1/8/14 Recent Posts

Thanks Steve! After digging into this a little more with the lat/lon your provided from the NBM, there seems to be a discrepancy between the lat/lon you provided and where we're seeing the SLC ASOS training being inserted into the NBM. I've attached an image from the WSUP viewer (which matches what we're seeing in GFE) with the NBM data for SLC seeming to be displaced two pixels to the north of the ASOS. While the point you mentioned would be close enough to be in the correct grid box, the current URMA/RTMA point is still displaced one pixel to the north as well. Is the NBM issue something you would be able to follow up on? Or would it be better to start a post in the NBM forum? 

Attachments:

Attachment

DC
David Church, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 1/8/14 Recent Posts

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 

SL
Steven Levine, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 174 Join Date: 11/13/14 Recent Posts
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
MM
Matthew Morris, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi David,

It sounds like the issue was mostly with the placement of KSLC in the NBM, which will be corrected in v4.2.  Is there still an issue with the placement in RTMA/URMA that should be investigated?

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 1:22 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Steven Levine RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30036064VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758
DC
David Church, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 1/8/14 Recent Posts
Hi Matt,
There is still a placement issue in the URMA/RTMA. In the linked spreadsheet, we’ve found that KSLC is still placed at the old bad location (red side of the sheet) instead of the updated higher precision lat/lon (on the green side of the sheet). The result is a one pixel offset to the north of the placement of the KSLC ob in the URMA/RTMA. If we could get the lat/lon to match in both the NBM and URMA/RTMA, that would be ideal. 

Thanks,
David 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 8:58 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

It sounds like the issue was mostly with the placement of KSLC in the NBM, which will be corrected in v4.2.  Is there still an issue with the placement in RTMA/URMA that should be investigated?

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 1:22 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Steven Levine RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30036064VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30118602VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)
MM
Matthew Morris, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi David,

We have asked the EMC decoder group to update the station tables to reflect the correct latitude value for KSLC.  The latitude would be updated from 40.78N to 40.77N.  This would require NCO to update the station tables, and it's not clear when this update might occur.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 11:30 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Matt,
There is still a placement issue in the URMA/RTMA. In the linked spreadsheet, we’ve found that KSLC is still placed at the old bad location (red side of the sheet) instead of the updated higher precision lat/lon (on the green side of the sheet). The result is a one pixel offset to the north of the placement of the KSLC ob in the URMA/RTMA. If we could get the lat/lon to match in both the NBM and URMA/RTMA, that would be ideal. 

Thanks,
David 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 8:58 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

It sounds like the issue was mostly with the placement of KSLC in the NBM, which will be corrected in v4.2.  Is there still an issue with the placement in RTMA/URMA that should be investigated?

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 1:22 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Steven Levine RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30036064VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30118602VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30119138VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758
DC
David Church, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 1/8/14 Recent Posts
Thanks for following up on this for us Matt, we appreciate it. 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:29 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

We have asked the EMC decoder group to update the station tables to reflect the correct latitude value for KSLC.  The latitude would be updated from 40.78N to 40.77N.  This would require NCO to update the station tables, and it's not clear when this update might occur.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 11:30 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Matt,
There is still a placement issue in the URMA/RTMA. In the linked spreadsheet, we’ve found that KSLC is still placed at the old bad location (red side of the sheet) instead of the updated higher precision lat/lon (on the green side of the sheet). The result is a one pixel offset to the north of the placement of the KSLC ob in the URMA/RTMA. If we could get the lat/lon to match in both the NBM and URMA/RTMA, that would be ideal. 

Thanks,
David 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 8:58 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

It sounds like the issue was mostly with the placement of KSLC in the NBM, which will be corrected in v4.2.  Is there still an issue with the placement in RTMA/URMA that should be investigated?

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 1:22 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Steven Levine RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30036064VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30118602VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30119138VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30122406VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)
MM
Matthew Morris, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi David,

The latitude value for KSLC was updated in the NCEP decoder tables beginning at 12Z today.  The latitude value was updated from 40.78 to 40.77N.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 7:01 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks for following up on this for us Matt, we appreciate it. 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:29 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

We have asked the EMC decoder group to update the station tables to reflect the correct latitude value for KSLC.  The latitude would be updated from 40.78N to 40.77N.  This would require NCO to update the station tables, and it's not clear when this update might occur.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 11:30 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Matt,
There is still a placement issue in the URMA/RTMA. In the linked spreadsheet, we’ve found that KSLC is still placed at the old bad location (red side of the sheet) instead of the updated higher precision lat/lon (on the green side of the sheet). The result is a one pixel offset to the north of the placement of the KSLC ob in the URMA/RTMA. If we could get the lat/lon to match in both the NBM and URMA/RTMA, that would be ideal. 

Thanks,
David 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 8:58 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

It sounds like the issue was mostly with the placement of KSLC in the NBM, which will be corrected in v4.2.  Is there still an issue with the placement in RTMA/URMA that should be investigated?

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 1:22 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Steven Levine RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30036064VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30118602VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30119138VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30122406VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30125715VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758
DC
David Church, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: SLC METAR Location Offset

Youngling Posts: 7 Join Date: 1/8/14 Recent Posts
Great, thanks for the update Matt! 

On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:54 PM Matthew Morris - NOAA Affiliate <matthew.t.morris@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

The latitude value for KSLC was updated in the NCEP decoder tables beginning at 12Z today.  The latitude value was updated from 40.78 to 40.77N.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 7:01 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks for following up on this for us Matt, we appreciate it. 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 2:29 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

We have asked the EMC decoder group to update the station tables to reflect the correct latitude value for KSLC.  The latitude would be updated from 40.78N to 40.77N.  This would require NCO to update the station tables, and it's not clear when this update might occur.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 11:30 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Matt,
There is still a placement issue in the URMA/RTMA. In the linked spreadsheet, we’ve found that KSLC is still placed at the old bad location (red side of the sheet) instead of the updated higher precision lat/lon (on the green side of the sheet). The result is a one pixel offset to the north of the placement of the KSLC ob in the URMA/RTMA. If we could get the lat/lon to match in both the NBM and URMA/RTMA, that would be ideal. 

Thanks,
David 

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 8:58 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

It sounds like the issue was mostly with the placement of KSLC in the NBM, which will be corrected in v4.2.  Is there still an issue with the placement in RTMA/URMA that should be investigated?

Thanks,
Matt

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 1:22 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
David,

I owe you an apology.  I was looking at the wrong file when giving the NBM location for KSLC yesterday.  I see 40.8014 N as the location, not 40.7667.  This matches perfectly with the grid point that is being edited and labeled in NBM/WSUP.  

I have no idea where this discrepancy came from.  I can go ahead and make a change for what goes into v4.2 and I will see if this is an issue with other stations.

Steve

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 5:21 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Sorry for the extra post. After talking to another person here we're pretty confident that the NBM pixel was in the correct location (and would match the lat/lon you provided) at some point in the past, but we're not exactly sure when this changed. I wonder if something was accidentally reverted or overwritten at some point that would have caused this to fall back to an old bad location.

 

On the URMA/RMTA side, this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t22oiFNLBgBJsNV6R1z2k6Htj1ySvqSoeGzE0mHWtKE/edit#gid=1350327733) data for SLC's old/bad lat/lon listing matches what we're seeing the KMLs currently. While the new/high precision location in the spreadsheet is exactly right for the ASOS location. I found this on the VLAB from a project around 2020, so I also wonder if something was inadvertently reverted on the URMA/RMTA side as well at some point. 

 

If this is the case for either system, this could larger impacts than just here at SLC. 


--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30016494VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
Steven Levine RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30036064VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30118602VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30119138VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30122406VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

--
David Church RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/30125715VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/NCEP/EMC
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2038
College Park, MD 20740
301-683-3758


--

David Church

Science and Operations Officer

National Weather Service | NOAA | DOC

Weather Forecast Office | Salt Lake City, UT

801-524-5141 (office)

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  • 2011 RTMA Paper (Weather and Forecasting)

    The most recent peer-reviewed paper on the RTMA. Published in Weather and Forecasting in 2011.
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  • Public RTMA/URMA Viewer

    Another viewer of the current RTMA/URMA, with an archive going back 24 hours. This version is open to the public, but does not contain information about the (many) restricted obs used.
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  • RAP downscaling conference preprint (23rd IIPS)

    This link is to a presentation from the (then) RUC group on how the downscaling process works. Although we now use the RAP, HRRR, and NAM, the logic of the downscaling code is mostly unchanged from this point.
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