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Re: URMA Winds @ Duluth Sky Harbor Airport (KDYT)

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Greg Mann, modified 3 Years ago.

Re: URMA Winds @ Duluth Sky Harbor Airport (KDYT)

Youngling Posts: 1 Join Date: 9/25/12 Recent Posts
Nick is correct here. Patrick, I am assuming the plan view plot is from the time of your message. This suggests the RTMA matches the actual observation well. So, the observation trace on the time series comparison is likely the bogus value from the GLERL adjusted synthetic observation (which is not a good truth source). Given this time series is with offshore flow, the GLERL adjustment will be artificially high. With the HRRRv4 background in place, the synthetic observations will need to be sunsetted in the next version of RTMA / URMA.

Greg Mann, Ph.D.  -   Science & Operations Officer
NOAA  /  National Weather Service,  Detroit  MI
Mobile: 810.423.5188 (currently on Telework)
Office: 248.625.3309x766     -   greg.mann@noaa.gov


On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 2:39 PM Nicholas Langlieb - NOAA Federal <nicholas.langlieb@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Patrick,

I think I might know what is going on here....maybe.

I pulled up the RTMA QC kml and opened it with Google Earth for 1/30/2021 00 UTC.  KDYT is in there twice, once as "KDYT" with the provider as "METAR" showing an observed wind speed of 13.02 knots.  It is also listed as "KDYT" with the provider "GLERL ADJUSTED" with an observed value of 22.04 knots.  That value in your plot looks like it matches the GLERL ADJUSTED.  Greg Mann would know way more about this, but basically, the GLERL Adjusted obs were created to help with the lake/land mask when the RTMA was using a course background, RAP I think.  Around a year ago this topic came up and we were able to blacklist the GLERL adjusted because they were causing issues in the RTMA/URMA analysis and therefore NBM bias correction, and not really necessary with the HRRR as the background.

I've cc'd Greg Mann, maybe he can chime in.

Best,
-Nick



On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 9:37 AM Patrick Ayd - NOAA Federal <patrick.ayd@noaa.gov> wrote:
All,

I noticed winds at KDYT Duluth Sky Harbor Airport in the marine environment (see map below) have been really too low the past couple of days. All of our sites outside of the marine environment have been tracking much better:

Thanks!

KDYT_2021020506.png


image.png

--
Patrick Ayd
Science and Operations Officer 
NOAA/NWS WFO Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6697
Cell: 651-245-7829
 


--
Nick Langlieb
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service
WFO Marquette, MI
906-475-5782 ext 766

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MM
Matthew Morris, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Re: URMA Winds @ Duluth Sky Harbor Airport (KDYT)

Youngling Posts: 158 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi All,

The URMA time series page was plotting the GLERL adjusted observation rather than the original METAR report for this particular station.  I have updated the code to address this and the time series page will display the original METAR report beginning with today's 11Z URMA cycle.  

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 7:46 AM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Nick is correct here. Patrick, I am assuming the plan view plot is from the time of your message. This suggests the RTMA matches the actual observation well. So, the observation trace on the time series comparison is likely the bogus value from the GLERL adjusted synthetic observation (which is not a good truth source). Given this time series is with offshore flow, the GLERL adjustment will be artificially high. With the HRRRv4 background in place, the synthetic observations will need to be sunsetted in the next version of RTMA / URMA.

Greg Mann, Ph.D.  -   Science & Operations Officer
NOAA  /  National Weather Service,  Detroit  MI
Mobile: 810.423.5188 (currently on Telework)
Office: 248.625.3309x766     -   greg.mann@noaa.gov


On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 2:39 PM Nicholas Langlieb - NOAA Federal <nicholas.langlieb@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Patrick,

I think I might know what is going on here....maybe.

I pulled up the RTMA QC kml and opened it with Google Earth for 1/30/2021 00 UTC.  KDYT is in there twice, once as "KDYT" with the provider as "METAR" showing an observed wind speed of 13.02 knots.  It is also listed as "KDYT" with the provider "GLERL ADJUSTED" with an observed value of 22.04 knots.  That value in your plot looks like it matches the GLERL ADJUSTED.  Greg Mann would know way more about this, but basically, the GLERL Adjusted obs were created to help with the lake/land mask when the RTMA was using a course background, RAP I think.  Around a year ago this topic came up and we were able to blacklist the GLERL adjusted because they were causing issues in the RTMA/URMA analysis and therefore NBM bias correction, and not really necessary with the HRRR as the background.

I've cc'd Greg Mann, maybe he can chime in.

Best,
-Nick



On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 9:37 AM Patrick Ayd - NOAA Federal <patrick.ayd@noaa.gov> wrote:
All,

I noticed winds at KDYT Duluth Sky Harbor Airport in the marine environment (see map below) have been really too low the past couple of days. All of our sites outside of the marine environment have been tracking much better:

Thanks!

KDYT_2021020506.png


image.png

--
Patrick Ayd
Science and Operations Officer 
NOAA/NWS WFO Duluth, MN
Office: 218-729-6697
Cell: 651-245-7829
 


--
Nick Langlieb
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service
WFO Marquette, MI
906-475-5782 ext 766

--
Greg Mann RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/13645311VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


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