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Union Pacific Railroad (UPR) Temperature

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David Bonnette, modified 10 Days ago.

Union Pacific Railroad (UPR) Temperature

Youngling Posts: 5 Join Date: 3/31/18 Recent Posts
There has been a persistent temperature hotspot SE of the DFW Metroplex for the past few weeks in the NBM and URMA, so we dug into the data and noticed a UPR site with exceptionally hot temperature values. Oddly enough, the UPR site is just outside of the local hotspot, so I am not sure how much it factors into our current issue.  Regardless, according to the URMA observations at 21Z on 6/30/2026, a UPR observation of 108.05 was accepted into the URMA (see screenshot below):


I remember hearing that UPR temperature values were usually too high, so I reached out to  Rod Doerr, the Chief Safety Officer at Union Pacific Railroad today. He confirmed that UPR temperature readings measure the track temperature, not the ambient temperature. He did say that some UPR sites measure ambient temperature, but most do not. Therefore,  I recommend either blacklisting all UPR temperature values or having local WFOs verify that all UPR sites in their CWA are representative during days with strong insolation.

Thanks!
-David

David Bonnette
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service Forecast Office
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Office: (817) 429-2631 x224

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MM
Matthew Morris, modified 5 Days ago.

RE: Union Pacific Railroad (UPR) Temperature

Youngling Posts: 185 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi David,

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.  We have seen similar issues elsewhere with these Union Pacific Railroad stations.  In principle, RTMA/URMA could be updated to flag all temperature observations from this provider.  However, we are rapidly approaching the moratorium to migrate the production suite to WCOSS3 (on the cloud) and are, therefore, unable to make any science changes until after the moratorium concludes in 2028.  By that point, we will be working on the MPAS/JEDI-based 3DRTMAv2, so this change may need to wait until that system is implemented.

In the meantime, we will continue addressing these UPR stations through the SDM reject list.  I will work on identifying all of the stations in your forecast area over the coming days, and I will follow-up with you once those stations have been flagged.

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Jul 1, 2026 at 9:56 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
There has been a persistent temperature hotspot SE of the DFW Metroplex for the past few weeks in the NBM and URMA, so we dug into the data and noticed a UPR site with exceptionally hot temperature values. Oddly enough, the UPR site is just outside of the local hotspot, so I am not sure how much it factors into our current issue.  Regardless, according to the URMA observations at 21Z on 6/30/2026, a UPR observation of 108.05 was accepted into the URMA (see screenshot below):


I remember hearing that UPR temperature values were usually too high, so I reached out to  Rod Doerr, the Chief Safety Officer at Union Pacific Railroad today. He confirmed that UPR temperature readings measure the track temperature, not the ambient temperature. He did say that some UPR sites measure ambient temperature, but most do not. Therefore,  I recommend either blacklisting all UPR temperature values or having local WFOs verify that all UPR sites in their CWA are representative during days with strong insolation.

Thanks!
-David

David Bonnette
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service Forecast Office
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Office: (817) 429-2631 x224

--
David Bonnette RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51819476VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758
JC
James V Clark, modified 5 Days ago.

RE: Union Pacific Railroad (UPR) Temperature

Youngling Posts: 12 Join Date: 8/13/15 Recent Posts
Thanks for bringing this up David and Matt.  It reminds me I had forgotten to reach out about some that are causing us some issues(not UPR).  JE303, JE201, and JE027.  There are a few others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.  I have a script that tags any that are more than 15-20F off BG using the XMLs.  We initially noticed them because of a "cool spot" in Pinal County in the NBM in Temps and Heat Risk. Values can be off 20F-25F in peak heating.  If those could be pulled, it would be greatly appreciated.  We had to shutdown our Linux server when decominshing some VMs, but once I get the databases loaded to another server, I can get you some additional info.

JV
_________________________________________________________________________
James V.  Clark III
Information Technology Officer
Mission Systems & Application Support Unit
Information Technology Management Division
National Weather Service
520 North Park Avenue, Suite 304
Tucson, Arizona 85719
520-670-6526

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. -- Vince Lombardi


On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 1:44 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.  We have seen similar issues elsewhere with these Union Pacific Railroad stations.  In principle, RTMA/URMA could be updated to flag all temperature observations from this provider.  However, we are rapidly approaching the moratorium to migrate the production suite to WCOSS3 (on the cloud) and are, therefore, unable to make any science changes until after the moratorium concludes in 2028.  By that point, we will be working on the MPAS/JEDI-based 3DRTMAv2, so this change may need to wait until that system is implemented.

In the meantime, we will continue addressing these UPR stations through the SDM reject list.  I will work on identifying all of the stations in your forecast area over the coming days, and I will follow-up with you once those stations have been flagged.

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Jul 1, 2026 at 9:56 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
There has been a persistent temperature hotspot SE of the DFW Metroplex for the past few weeks in the NBM and URMA, so we dug into the data and noticed a UPR site with exceptionally hot temperature values. Oddly enough, the UPR site is just outside of the local hotspot, so I am not sure how much it factors into our current issue.  Regardless, according to the URMA observations at 21Z on 6/30/2026, a UPR observation of 108.05 was accepted into the URMA (see screenshot below):


I remember hearing that UPR temperature values were usually too high, so I reached out to  Rod Doerr, the Chief Safety Officer at Union Pacific Railroad today. He confirmed that UPR temperature readings measure the track temperature, not the ambient temperature. He did say that some UPR sites measure ambient temperature, but most do not. Therefore,  I recommend either blacklisting all UPR temperature values or having local WFOs verify that all UPR sites in their CWA are representative during days with strong insolation.

Thanks!
-David

David Bonnette
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service Forecast Office
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Office: (817) 429-2631 x224

--
David Bonnette RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51819476VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51896988VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
MM
Matthew Morris, modified 4 Days ago.

RE: Union Pacific Railroad (UPR) Temperature

Youngling Posts: 185 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi JV,

We will add those 3 stations to the reject list for temperature in the next several days.  I will follow-up with you individually once the flags are added.

As a general reminder, station QC requests can be submitted through a Google Form.  Larger requests (more than 10 stations or so) can be emailed to me directly.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 5:06 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks for bringing this up David and Matt.  It reminds me I had forgotten to reach out about some that are causing us some issues(not UPR).  JE303, JE201, and JE027.  There are a few others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.  I have a script that tags any that are more than 15-20F off BG using the XMLs.  We initially noticed them because of a "cool spot" in Pinal County in the NBM in Temps and Heat Risk. Values can be off 20F-25F in peak heating.  If those could be pulled, it would be greatly appreciated.  We had to shutdown our Linux server when decominshing some VMs, but once I get the databases loaded to another server, I can get you some additional info.

JV
_________________________________________________________________________
James V.  Clark III
Information Technology Officer
Mission Systems & Application Support Unit
Information Technology Management Division
National Weather Service
520 North Park Avenue, Suite 304
Tucson, Arizona 85719
520-670-6526

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. -- Vince Lombardi


On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 1:44 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.  We have seen similar issues elsewhere with these Union Pacific Railroad stations.  In principle, RTMA/URMA could be updated to flag all temperature observations from this provider.  However, we are rapidly approaching the moratorium to migrate the production suite to WCOSS3 (on the cloud) and are, therefore, unable to make any science changes until after the moratorium concludes in 2028.  By that point, we will be working on the MPAS/JEDI-based 3DRTMAv2, so this change may need to wait until that system is implemented.

In the meantime, we will continue addressing these UPR stations through the SDM reject list.  I will work on identifying all of the stations in your forecast area over the coming days, and I will follow-up with you once those stations have been flagged.

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Jul 1, 2026 at 9:56 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
There has been a persistent temperature hotspot SE of the DFW Metroplex for the past few weeks in the NBM and URMA, so we dug into the data and noticed a UPR site with exceptionally hot temperature values. Oddly enough, the UPR site is just outside of the local hotspot, so I am not sure how much it factors into our current issue.  Regardless, according to the URMA observations at 21Z on 6/30/2026, a UPR observation of 108.05 was accepted into the URMA (see screenshot below):


I remember hearing that UPR temperature values were usually too high, so I reached out to  Rod Doerr, the Chief Safety Officer at Union Pacific Railroad today. He confirmed that UPR temperature readings measure the track temperature, not the ambient temperature. He did say that some UPR sites measure ambient temperature, but most do not. Therefore,  I recommend either blacklisting all UPR temperature values or having local WFOs verify that all UPR sites in their CWA are representative during days with strong insolation.

Thanks!
-David

David Bonnette
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service Forecast Office
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Office: (817) 429-2631 x224

--
David Bonnette RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51819476VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51896988VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
James V Clark RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51897062VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758
MM
Matthew Morris, modified 1 Day ago.

RE: Union Pacific Railroad (UPR) Temperature

Youngling Posts: 185 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi David and JV,

We added all UPR stations in the FWD CWA to the SDM reject list for temperature, effective with today's 12Z URMA cycle.  The mesonet stations JV requested be flagged for temperature were also added at this time.

Thanks,
Matt

On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 1:51 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi JV,

We will add those 3 stations to the reject list for temperature in the next several days.  I will follow-up with you individually once the flags are added.

As a general reminder, station QC requests can be submitted through a Google Form.  Larger requests (more than 10 stations or so) can be emailed to me directly.

Thanks,
Matt

On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 5:06 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Thanks for bringing this up David and Matt.  It reminds me I had forgotten to reach out about some that are causing us some issues(not UPR).  JE303, JE201, and JE027.  There are a few others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.  I have a script that tags any that are more than 15-20F off BG using the XMLs.  We initially noticed them because of a "cool spot" in Pinal County in the NBM in Temps and Heat Risk. Values can be off 20F-25F in peak heating.  If those could be pulled, it would be greatly appreciated.  We had to shutdown our Linux server when decominshing some VMs, but once I get the databases loaded to another server, I can get you some additional info.

JV
_________________________________________________________________________
James V.  Clark III
Information Technology Officer
Mission Systems & Application Support Unit
Information Technology Management Division
National Weather Service
520 North Park Avenue, Suite 304
Tucson, Arizona 85719
520-670-6526

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. -- Vince Lombardi


On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 1:44 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi David,

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.  We have seen similar issues elsewhere with these Union Pacific Railroad stations.  In principle, RTMA/URMA could be updated to flag all temperature observations from this provider.  However, we are rapidly approaching the moratorium to migrate the production suite to WCOSS3 (on the cloud) and are, therefore, unable to make any science changes until after the moratorium concludes in 2028.  By that point, we will be working on the MPAS/JEDI-based 3DRTMAv2, so this change may need to wait until that system is implemented.

In the meantime, we will continue addressing these UPR stations through the SDM reject list.  I will work on identifying all of the stations in your forecast area over the coming days, and I will follow-up with you once those stations have been flagged.

Thanks,
Matt

On Wed, Jul 1, 2026 at 9:56 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
There has been a persistent temperature hotspot SE of the DFW Metroplex for the past few weeks in the NBM and URMA, so we dug into the data and noticed a UPR site with exceptionally hot temperature values. Oddly enough, the UPR site is just outside of the local hotspot, so I am not sure how much it factors into our current issue.  Regardless, according to the URMA observations at 21Z on 6/30/2026, a UPR observation of 108.05 was accepted into the URMA (see screenshot below):


I remember hearing that UPR temperature values were usually too high, so I reached out to  Rod Doerr, the Chief Safety Officer at Union Pacific Railroad today. He confirmed that UPR temperature readings measure the track temperature, not the ambient temperature. He did say that some UPR sites measure ambient temperature, but most do not. Therefore,  I recommend either blacklisting all UPR temperature values or having local WFOs verify that all UPR sites in their CWA are representative during days with strong insolation.

Thanks!
-David

David Bonnette
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service Forecast Office
Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
Office: (817) 429-2631 x224

--
David Bonnette RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51819476VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51896988VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov

--
James V Clark RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51897062VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758

--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/51910918VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Matthew Morris
SAIC at NOAA/NWS/OMD
5830 University Research Ct., Rm. 2013
Riverdale Park, MD 20737
301-683-3758