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RE: URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

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David Barjenbruch, modified 3 Years ago.

URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

Youngling Posts: 15 Join Date: 9/2/14 Recent Posts

A bit of a double post here (also posted on NBM), but thought I would share findings from a windy day on the High Plains and how URMA and URMAP compared. I think I was able to grab the accurate winds and gusts of URMAP from the NBM viewer page (no image but was able to get readouts).  If they are, the latest version of URMA looks much improved at least in this event.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1o0ehYb1jdor6H_g8eSymzQeWtyMDY18mLhue1r7UXk8/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks,
Dave B. 

Young-Joon Kim, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

Youngling Posts: 12 Join Date: 11/15/16 Recent Posts
Dave,

Nice analysis of the event with promising results from the newer version of URMA.

This case, however, doesn't seem to have much effect from the mountains in the west since the winds are mostly southerlies (slide 7).  Can you do the same analysis for any westerly cases, which might be a good test of topographic effect that must be quite dominant in the area?

Thank you.

yj kim

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:35 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

A bit of a double post here (also posted on NBM), but thought I would share findings from a windy day on the High Plains and how URMA and URMAP compared. I think I was able to grab the accurate winds and gusts of URMAP from the NBM viewer page (no image but was able to get readouts).  If they are, the latest version of URMA looks much improved at least in this event.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1o0ehYb1jdor6H_g8eSymzQeWtyMDY18mLhue1r7UXk8/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks,
Dave B. 


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David Barjenbruch RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/discussions-forums-/-/message_boards/view_message/10279742 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
U
Anonymous, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

Hi YJ,

Unfortunately, I don't have a recent example of a downslope wind event for the Front Range.  I was able to grab just a couple hours of data from the tail end of a NNW high wind event we had on May 7th - those are attached.  The URMAP showed strong improvement again in the 10 m sustained winds versus URMA.  Interestingly, both the URMA and URMAP were actually a little too strong with regard to gusts, but models (even HRRR) struggled with the timing of this wind event.    The comparisons are attached below.

With regard to a true downslope wind, we had a weak event April 23, but gusts were only 25-30 knots. So, not a great event to look at and we weren't able to capture URMAP.  If you are able to look back further in time, I would like to do a comparison on a stronger downslope wind event from 18Z January 17 til about 01Z January 18.  Would you have data for that? 


Thanks,

Dave B. 

 


 

Young-Joon Kim, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

Youngling Posts: 12 Join Date: 11/15/16 Recent Posts
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your quick response with another example (although the attached images were not decoded right and I only see some text - would you re-attach those images?).  

Struggling HRRR in mountainous areas is not unusual as some field forecasters report as a complex issue that touches on various modeling and data assimilation components - as you nicely pointed out with the Dec. 2018 inversion event that I cite frequently.  

Among many parameters, winds are the hardest to control in NWP and analysis systems based on my experience. In fact, I was very interested in and worked on the Boulder windstorm in my graduate school.  We are proposing to track the biases (focusing on winds and temperature) populating from HRRR to RTMA/URMA and eventually to NBM. 

It'll be very nice if we have the data for and analyze the Jan. downslope wind event you mentioned, but we don't have the data.  And, if you encounter any strong windstorm event in the future, I'd also be very interested in your analysis of it. 

Thanks again.

yj

p.s. Thanks for submitting your input to our RTMA/URMA Survey.


On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:03 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Hi YJ,

Unfortunately, I don't have a recent example of a downslope wind event for the Front Range.  I was able to grab just a couple hours of data from the tail end of a NNW high wind event we had on May 7th - those are attached.  The URMAP showed strong improvement again in the 10 m sustained winds versus URMA.  Interestingly, both the URMA and URMAP were actually a little too strong with regard to gusts, but models (even HRRR) struggled with the timing of this wind event.    The comparisons are attached below.

With regard to a true downslope wind, we had a weak event April 23, but gusts were only 25-30 knots. So, not a great event to look at and we weren't able to capture URMAP.  If you are able to look back further in time, I would like to do a comparison on a stronger downslope wind event from 18Z January 17 til about 01Z January 18.  Would you have data for that? 


Thanks,

Dave B. 

 


 


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Anonymous RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/10289886 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov
Young-Joon Kim, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

Youngling Posts: 12 Join Date: 11/15/16 Recent Posts
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Matthew Morris, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: URMA and URMAP - Brief Case Study & Observation Notes on a Windy Day

Youngling Posts: 169 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi Dave,

Thanks for sharing this case study.  We're glad to know that URMA v2.8 (URMAP) performed better than the operational URMA in this case, which should also benefit the NBM.

Thanks,
Matt Morris

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:35 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

A bit of a double post here (also posted on NBM), but thought I would share findings from a windy day on the High Plains and how URMA and URMAP compared. I think I was able to grab the accurate winds and gusts of URMAP from the NBM viewer page (no image but was able to get readouts).  If they are, the latest version of URMA looks much improved at least in this event.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1o0ehYb1jdor6H_g8eSymzQeWtyMDY18mLhue1r7UXk8/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks,
Dave B. 


--
David Barjenbruch RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/discussions-forums-/-/message_boards/view_message/10279742 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov