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RE: Thunder Attributes for Severe and Non-severe storms

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Ruth Ebert, modified 2 Years ago.

Thunder Attributes for Severe and Non-severe storms

Youngling Posts: 10 Join Date: 10/29/16 Recent Posts

I was testing forecast building in anticipation of the summer severe weather season, and uncovered what I consider a serious flaw regarding thunderstorm attributes. It is possible there is a configuration way around this but it is not obvious to me. 

Part of our general procedures in the summer is to put thunderstorm attributes in our weather grids in advance of severe weather occurring, using the PotSevere grid. Testing the use of this grid resulted in expected behavior with severe attributes (dmgW and lgA) and T+ added to the weather grids in areas where the PotSevere grid had 30% or more. 

The problem occurred if we want to include non severe attributes (smA and gustyW) for areas outside of the PotSevere 30% area. This is something we would routinely do as storms in the northern high plains intensify as they move away from the mountains.  In the past we have used the PotSevere 15-30% option to create an area for these sub-severe attributes, and also allow for an area of general thunderstorms (with no attributes). When I was testing this using forecast builder, having a PotSevere grid with values ranging from zero to 30+, PoPs and PotThunder for most of the area above 15%, and selecting DmgW, gustyW, LgA, and SmA from the list of Thunderstorm attributes, the result would be TRW- GW, SmA for everywhere with T, and TRW+ GW, DmgW, LgA, SmA for everywhere that overlapped with the PotSevere 30+.

 

Is there some way to fix this in the configuration or is the code just a hold over from previous versions of FB? It would be nice to be able to use this as we find it very helpful in messaging impacts for our area. 

 

JT
Justin Titus, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: Thunder Attributes for Severe and Non-severe storms

Padawan Posts: 33 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts

Ruth, thanks for reporting this. I will look into it and get back with you. Looks like busy weather for my current night shift, but the next few shifts will be quiet. 

Thanks!

 

Justin Titus

ForecastBuilder Technical Working Group

RL
Ryan Leach, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: Thunder Attributes for Severe and Non-severe storms

Youngling Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/19/16 Recent Posts
Ruth,

I don't think it works that way anymore. We no longer edit the PotSevere grid at all for sub-severe thunderstorm attributes. When I did some testing earlier this year I was able to get the attributes in during the Wx step by using the check boxes on the Wx step. The severe weather attributes only worked if the PotSevere grids were greater than 30, but the sub-severe stuff worked regardless of the PotSevere grid values. If you want to restrict the area or time range for the attributes there are also checkbox items in the lower left of the GUI in the wx step for doing that. 

I'm on mids now through Wednesday morning. If you're on mids too we can chat and I'll walk you through what I did.

Thanks,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 10:31 PM Justin Titus <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Ruth, thanks for reporting this. I will look into it and get back with you. Looks like busy weather for my current night shift, but the next few shifts will be quiet. 

Thanks!

 

Justin Titus

ForecastBuilder Technical Working Group

Virtual Lab Message Boards https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/forecastbuilder/forums/-/message_boards/view_message/22775272VLab.Notifications@noaa.govhttp://vlab.noaa.gov
JT
Justin Titus, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: Thunder Attributes for Severe and Non-severe storms

Padawan Posts: 33 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts
I can confirm after double checking that this did change to what Ryan described. I believe it changed in version 9.0. Thanks to Ryan for replying with details!

Justin

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 11:55 PM Ryan Leach <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Ruth,

I don't think it works that way anymore. We no longer edit the PotSevere grid at all for sub-severe thunderstorm attributes. When I did some testing earlier this year I was able to get the attributes in during the Wx step by using the check boxes on the Wx step. The severe weather attributes only worked if the PotSevere grids were greater than 30, but the sub-severe stuff worked regardless of the PotSevere grid values. If you want to restrict the area or time range for the attributes there are also checkbox items in the lower left of the GUI in the wx step for doing that. 

I'm on mids now through Wednesday morning. If you're on mids too we can chat and I'll walk you through what I did.

Thanks,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 10:31 PM Justin Titus <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

Ruth, thanks for reporting this. I will look into it and get back with you. Looks like busy weather for my current night shift, but the next few shifts will be quiet. 

Thanks!

 

Justin Titus

ForecastBuilder Technical Working Group

Virtual Lab Message Boards https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/forecastbuilder/forums/-/message_boards/view_message/22775272VLab.Notifications@noaa.govhttp://vlab.noaa.gov
Virtual Lab Message Boards http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/forecastbuilder/forums/-/message_boards/view_message/22852550VLab.Notifications@noaa.govhttp://vlab.noaa.gov