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RE: KGPI METAR being thrown out?

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Ryan Leach, modified 4 Years ago.

KGPI METAR being thrown out?

Youngling Posts: 18 Join Date: 1/19/16 Recent Posts

I was looking over the URMA time series viewer and picked up the attached graphs for  Glacier Park International Air port.  For some reason the editor here won't let me embedd them in the message, but they're attached. You can see for both temperature and moisture the analysis strongly favors the first guess over the observations. I looked at several other sites in the region, and couldn't find any others that had this problem. I understand there is a gross error check, but I thought it was supposed to be pretty hard to lose a METAR to that.

 

Do we know what's causing GPI to be thrown out?

 

Also, I noticed that these graphics are no longer being updated.

 

Thanks,

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MM
Matthew Morris, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: KGPI METAR being thrown out?

Youngling Posts: 169 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi Ryan,

Thanks for your email.  We will take a closer look at your question regarding KGPI and get back to you shortly.

The URMA time series page is run on the WCOSS development machine, which was unavailable beginning last Tuesday, March 16th for the GFSv16 implementation.  The machine was returned yesterday and the time series page is now updating again.

-Matt

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 9:39 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

I was looking over the URMA time series viewer and picked up the attached graphs for  Glacier Park International Air port.  For some reason the editor here won't let me embedd them in the message, but they're attached. You can see for both temperature and moisture the analysis strongly favors the first guess over the observations. I looked at several other sites in the region, and couldn't find any others that had this problem. I understand there is a gross error check, but I thought it was supposed to be pretty hard to lose a METAR to that.

 

Do we know what's causing GPI to be thrown out?

 

Also, I noticed that these graphics are no longer being updated.

 

Thanks,


--
Ryan Leach RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/14202451 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


Chris Gibson, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: KGPI METAR being thrown out?

Youngling Posts: 23 Join Date: 9/24/12 Recent Posts
Matt,  The KML files suggest KGPI is not being thrown out, but the correction is only about half way from the FG to the OB.  Less than we would expect for an ASOS.  There is one CWOP nearby.

Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 3:06 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Ryan,

Thanks for your email.  We will take a closer look at your question regarding KGPI and get back to you shortly.

The URMA time series page is run on the WCOSS development machine, which was unavailable beginning last Tuesday, March 16th for the GFSv16 implementation.  The machine was returned yesterday and the time series page is now updating again.

-Matt

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 9:39 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

I was looking over the URMA time series viewer and picked up the attached graphs for  Glacier Park International Air port.  For some reason the editor here won't let me embedd them in the message, but they're attached. You can see for both temperature and moisture the analysis strongly favors the first guess over the observations. I looked at several other sites in the region, and couldn't find any others that had this problem. I understand there is a gross error check, but I thought it was supposed to be pretty hard to lose a METAR to that.

 

Do we know what's causing GPI to be thrown out?

 

Also, I noticed that these graphics are no longer being updated.

 

Thanks,


--
Ryan Leach RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/14202451 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov



--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/14214072 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Chris Gibson
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service
Missoula, Montana
406-329-4840
MM
Matthew Morris, modified 4 Years ago.

RE: KGPI METAR being thrown out?

Youngling Posts: 169 Join Date: 12/6/17 Recent Posts
Hi Ryan and Chris,

The behavior in the temperature time series for KGPI appears to be due to the influence of neighboring observations and a colder model background in the vicinity of KGPI.  [Note that the observations from KGPI are being used in the analysis, as indicated by the KML files and the green dots on the URMA time series.]  Please see the following slide deck:

 URMA 2 m T Case Study - NW Montana

At 12Z on March 10th, the background is below 16F near KGPI, with warmer background temperatures coinciding with the cluster of observations to the south.  At 12Z on March 11th, the background temperatures are again a bit cooler near KGPI, but this appears to be a case of the analysis overshooting the observations as the final analysis is colder than the background and observations would suggest.  This behavior occurs occasionally due to the desired close fit of the analysis to observations, and results in the introduction of spurious increments.  We can flag the CWOP station immediately to the west of KGPI, but this may not have much of an influence in this particular case.

We expect a better fit to the observations in the upcoming 3D-RTMA system owing to a recalibrated model of background errors.  In particular, we note the use of shorter radii of influence for the observations and more degrees of freedom for the structure functions that determine how the influence of each observation is spread to nearby grid points.  We plan to make 3D-RTMA parallel output available to stakeholders in the coming months.  The initial implementation is expected in FY2023-24.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

-Matt

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:10 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Matt,  The KML files suggest KGPI is not being thrown out, but the correction is only about half way from the FG to the OB.  Less than we would expect for an ASOS.  There is one CWOP nearby.

Chris

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 3:06 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:
Hi Ryan,

Thanks for your email.  We will take a closer look at your question regarding KGPI and get back to you shortly.

The URMA time series page is run on the WCOSS development machine, which was unavailable beginning last Tuesday, March 16th for the GFSv16 implementation.  The machine was returned yesterday and the time series page is now updating again.

-Matt

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 9:39 PM VLab Notifications <VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov> wrote:

I was looking over the URMA time series viewer and picked up the attached graphs for  Glacier Park International Air port.  For some reason the editor here won't let me embedd them in the message, but they're attached. You can see for both temperature and moisture the analysis strongly favors the first guess over the observations. I looked at several other sites in the region, and couldn't find any others that had this problem. I understand there is a gross error check, but I thought it was supposed to be pretty hard to lose a METAR to that.

 

Do we know what's causing GPI to be thrown out?

 

Also, I noticed that these graphics are no longer being updated.

 

Thanks,


--
Ryan Leach RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum https://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/14202451 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov



--
Matthew Morris RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/14214072 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov


--
Chris Gibson
Science and Operations Officer
National Weather Service
Missoula, Montana
406-329-4840

--
Chris Gibson RTMA/URMA Discussion Group Virtual Lab Forum http://vlab.noaa.gov/web/715073/home/-/message_boards/view_message/14214151 VLab.Notifications@noaa.gov